Rap In general is not music

[progrocker]

Lets face it, rap and hip hop sucks. (at least most of it)

I don't care how "real" you think it is. Music quality is not based on who can pretend to be the most violent or who's good at rhyming shallow meaningless words together.

freestyle rapping is art and I won't argue its difficulty, but it's not music.


Music means that there are instruments. Not just some electronic drum beat creater and a bassist who play's whole notes every once in a while.

You could place rap under the overly broad definition of music, but that doesn't mean it's good. It's just over processed shit that the music industry sells to people who aren't intelligent enough to listen to real music.

[MetaMorph]

And you think that house or dance music has better lyrics, eh? Or what's that "real" music?

If you only listen to that commercial hip-hop of course you hear only wack lyrics, but take a deeper look and check some good rappers like Nas, 2Pac, Eazy-E etc.

[progrocker]

lol @ house and dance....

anyway, if you want to talk about the lyrical side of why rap/hiphop isn't good, that's fine. Just read some 2 pac lyrics, and as I suspected... Terrible. Even if they have a meaning, there is absolutely no ambiguity, we know exactly wtf he is talking about every single line. Where is the fun in that.

It's like looking at a "painting" and seeing stick figures. So intellectually and emotionally unsatisfying.

http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/m/m...elevators.html

Now those are good lyrics. And good instrumentals with significant complexity to go along with it

[N abstract Y]

okay the roots use instruments to make their own production and they have great music

if hip hop is soo wakc den get off dis site or how bout u look up some real shit

[kaffran]

somebody get this redneck hick outta here..y the fuck u on this site then boy????

[underdogg65]

Originally Posted by kaffran

somebody get this redneck hick outta here..y the fuck u on this site then boy????

yo son chill out kicko dude just speakin his opinion..y the fuck u on this site if you cant accept people's opinions..u aint gotta agree wit it but at least respect him

[progrocker]

Thanks underdogg, but to be fair I am kind of being a troll.

But I'm not a redneck thats for sure. I live in Massachusetts, think country music is just about the worst shit around, and every black person I have ever met is the coolest person I know.

I looked up the roots and was unimpressed. They have terribly boring drum beats, as well as very simplistic guitar riffs, and all of that boring music is overpowered by the "vocals." Kanye has better instrumentals then that. Home coming has a nice little piano riff, but he "sings" to much. He has a big mouth, just like every rapper.

Every song has a 4/4 time measurment with a highly overused drum beat, and maybe a little synth track. No off beats or notes are placed in interesting thoughtful positions in the songs. I just want to understand what keeps you guys interested.

Ugh the worst is the bass. I'm a bass player and I shudder everytime some dude rolls by with the bass up as loud as it can possible be despite the fact that the song he is playing only has one bass note and thats not even created by a bass guitar. and it is such a boring rythmic pattern

Quarter note, eigth note, eigth note, eigth note, eigth note, quarter note...

[Hilarious Henry]

Originally Posted by progrocker

lol @ house and dance....

anyway, if you want to talk about the lyrical side of why rap/hiphop isn't good, that's fine. Just read some 2 pac lyrics, and as I suspected... Terrible. Even if they have a meaning, there is absolutely no ambiguity, we know exactly wtf he is talking about every single line. Where is the fun in that.

It's like looking at a "painting" and seeing stick figures. So intellectually and emotionally unsatisfying.

http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/m/m...elevators.html

Now those are good lyrics. And good instrumentals with significant complexity to go along with it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ1RqwgS3cY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0R7I7LjZ2A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3Cn14HNjrI

Don't judge rap/hip-hop by what you hear on the radio.

[MetaMorph]

Originally Posted by progrocker

I looked up the roots and was unimpressed. They have terribly boring drum beats, as well as very simplistic guitar riffs, and all of that boring music is overpowered by the "vocals." Kanye has better instrumentals then that. Home coming has a nice little piano riff, but he "sings" to much. He has a big mouth, just like every rapper.

Every song has a 4/4 time measurment with a highly overused drum beat, and maybe a little synth track. No off beats or notes are placed in interesting thoughtful positions in the songs. I just want to understand what keeps you guys interested.

Ugh the worst is the bass. I'm a bass player and I shudder everytime some dude rolls by with the bass up as loud as it can possible be despite the fact that the song he is playing only has one bass note and thats not even created by a bass guitar. and it is such a boring rythmic pattern

Quarter note, eigth note, eigth note, eigth note, eigth note, quarter note...

You can hear off-beat notes at starting beatmakers. It's kinda hard to make them sound good. That's how hip-hop music is. Everybody teaches you not go off-beat.
And what keeps me interested... songs like these maybe. It's not all about violence or how hot the hook is, some tracks go deeper for someone than for you (for example). It isn't just music for clubs, you can't put a girl to shake her ass on every hip-hop track.
An MC isn't considered good only by his lyrics, not all people can rap. You may see how easy those big rappers are rapping, but they have experience. It isn't only some talked words.

These days kids want to become rap superstars (MySpace is the proof), they want to live from the music that they make, they want to have shows everywhere etc. Now is all about money, industry is influencing music a lot.
If hip-hop was promoted like CC Catch's, The Beatles' or Elvis' music back in '80s imagine how many artists could start in those times. Now we live in another days, hip-hop is well promoted (at least in USA) and new guys think they will have a chance in the game. And they want to be 100% commercial, only to sell records.

I don't know if I heard an "exciting" bassline so far. A bassline is a bassline, I don't think it can sound amazing, whatever things are you doing with it.

[progrocker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ1RqwgS3cY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0R7I7LjZ2A


These two songs had some decent-good piano. Then they turn the piano tracks way down and the rappers just ruin it. Simple simple drum beats

That cunning lynguists song had far and away the best lyrics of a rap song I've heard. It used metaphors and had good visual descriptions etc. I still would never listen to it cause I don't think it sounds good. It's like there is nothing to look forward to in rap and hip hop. Verse chorus Verse Chorus Verse Chorus end. Where is the climax of the song?

[Evolve]

I'm gonna have to say I agree with progrocker here. Just think of the word music... Music is played with instruments. Good music was classified by music that was much more difficult to play, with harder and faster notes, all composed together so it sounded good too. Now think of rap. Most of the time boring and simple beats that take NO musical skill to create... so how can you say it's music?... 95% of the time the "instrument" involved isn't even an instrument, its a computer.

So look at the lyrical aspect of rap now. I've listened to Jay Z and Tupac, and yeah they can rhyme but is it really a rhyme if the words that are rhyming in each sentence are the same?... Also what is lame is when rappers miss-pronounce words so that they rhyme because they cant think of anything else, or when they rhyme two sentences that have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Here's an okay verse of rap where the artist is actually able to describe a situation, being pretty clever since he's not talking about bitches in hoes in one line then about how he busts caps in peoples asses in the second line:

"His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy
There's vomit on his sweater already, mom's spaghetti
He's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready
To drop bombs, but he keeps on forgettin
What he wrote down, the whole crowd goes so loud
He opens his mouth, but the words won't come out
He's choking, how everybody's joking now"

He does mispronounce some words to make them rhyme but this is far better than 99% of the rap lyrics out there.

So he was able to rhyme, he wrote a poem. Still isn't music though.


And to MetaMorph, I have a few good bass lines you should listen to. They are very complex, very difficult to play, and sound pretty good.

Here is the first-- The lead singer is also the bassist. At 2:57 he goes into a pretty exciting bass solo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1IuD6F3R5I


Here is the second-- The bass is easiest to hear at 0:07 to 0:16, but he does some pretty incredible stuff through the entire song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNrXNibNUC4

[MetaMorph]

You're right about the beats... kinda. All these producers are making them on computer, this is why they sound repetitive. You can't do on a PC what you do with a band, bro.

[Dayani]

Im here support that guys "Cunning lynguists"! They tight. They really tight. Totally new. ;-)

[MetaMorph]

No, they are not new.
In which side you are? Rappers or anti-rappers?

[Hilarious Henry]

Give me an example of a good overall song.....something like Lynard Skynard's Free Bird or something?

[Mic]

Denizen Kane verse from Thin Red Line:
The thin red line is the thin spine
I roll down the back of a city overgrown and overtaxed
The wack stands of the rich pick a thin
pockets bare and scatter, the skeletons of cultures with no rent control
Pattering feet of prostitutes and penny brown
children trades glass glades sweet for someone to pay or to listen
I glisten like the question in the shorty's eyes
sleeping in the train-car at the Lawrence stop when I get in
Making pillows out of bare arms while I'm posturing poems
but I can't name these eyes or the idea of less than home
Home be unfinished it that fate hasn't sown
in the skirt of an evening over mornings waste blown
I see the moon I see the go going by on stilts
as mouths wilt and turn blinded to girls' eyes
Fate's hands have holes, we hold hope by the collar
color red the closed eyes shut tight on the dollar
Wills rock-heads to sleep, my eyes peal all the way
to memorize a sleeping girl's face and bring it to PK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDlpCmNxLVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxbNwOt2pYk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sjY4...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzv30_idn7Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OpHJUJIrpU

not music??

[icy]

u suqk niqqa dnt fuqk wit hip hop like dat
i am hip hop
rock and counrty aint music dats jus niqqas screaming and talkin bout thorwing up peace sign

[TWK_420]

This shits been over argued through the years but rap and hip hop has proven itself and people like it. If you want some strong lyrics in rap check this out.

Immortal Technique
Dance With The Devil lyrics
[Verse 1]
I once knew a nigga whose real name was William
his primary concern, was making a million
being the illest hustler, that the world ever seen
he used to fuck movie stars and sniff coke in his dreams
a corrupted young mind, at the age of thirteen
nigga never had a father and his mom was a fiend
she put the pipe down, but for every year she was sober
her sons heart simultaneously grew colder
he started hanging out selling bags in the projects
checking the young chicks, looking for hit and run prospects
he was fascinated by material objects
but he understood money never bought respect
he built a reputation cause he could hustle and steal
but got locked once and didn't hesitate to squeal
so criminals he chilled with didn't think he was real
you see me and niggas like this have never been equal
I dont project my insecurities on other people
he fiended for props like addicts with pipes and needles
so he felt he had to prove to everyone he was evil
a feeble minded young man with infinite potential
the product of a ghetto bred capitalistic mental
coincidentally dropped out of school to sell weed
dancing with the devil, smoked until his eyes would bleed
but he was sick of selling trees and gave in to his greed

[Hook]
Everyone trying to be trife never face the consequences
you propably only did a month for minor offences
ask a nigga doing life if he had another chance
but then again there's always the wicked that knew in advance
dance forever with the devil on a cold cell block
but thats what happens when you rape, murder and sell rock
devils used to be gods, angels that fell from the top
there's no diversity because we're burning in the melting pot

[Verse 2]
So Billy started robbing niggaz, anything he could do
to get his respect back, in the eyes of his crew
starting fights over little shit, up on the block
stepped up to selling mothers and brothers the crack rock
working overtime for making money for the crack spot
hit the jackpot and wanted to move up to cocaine
fulfilling the scarface fantasy stuck in his brain
tired of the block niggaz treating him the same
he wanted to be major like the cut throats and the thugs
but when he tried to step to 'em, niggaz showed him no love
they told him any motherfucking coward can sell drugs
any bitch nigga with a gun can bust slugs
any nigga with a red shirt can front like a blood
even Puffy smoked a motherfucker up in the club
but only a real thug can stab someone till they die
standing in front of them, staring straight into their eyes
Billy realized that these men were well guarded
and they wanted to test him, before business started
suggested raping a bitch to prove he was cold hearted
so now he had a choice between going back to his life
or making money with made men, up in the cife
his dreams about cars and ice, made him agree
a hardcore nigga is all he ever wanted to be
and so he met them friday night at a quarter to three

[Hook]

[Verse 3]
They drove around the projects slow while it was raining
smoking blunts, drinking and joking for entertainment
until they saw a woman on the street walking alone
three in the morning, coming back from work, on her way home
and so they quietly got out the car and followed her
walking through the projects, the darkness swallowed her
they wrapped her shirt around her head and knocked her onto the floor
"this is it kid, now you got your chance to be raw..."
so Billy yoked her up and grabbed the chick by the hair
and dragged her into a lobby that had nobody there
she struggled hard but they forced her to go up the stairs
they got to the roof and then held her down on the ground
screaming shut the fuck up and stop moving around
the shirt covered her face, but she screamed and clawed
so Billy stomped on the bitch, until he broken her jaw
the dirty bastards knew exactly what they were doing
they kicked her until they cracked her ribs and she stopped moving
blood leaking through the cloth, she cried silently
and then they all proceeded to rape her violently
Billy was meant to go first, but each of them took a turn
ripping her up, and choking her until her throat burned
her broken jaw mumbled for God but they weren't concerned
when they were done and she was lying bloody, broken and bruised
one of them niggaz pulled out a brand new .22
they told him that she was a witness of what she'd gone through
and if he killed her he was guaranteed a spot in the crew
he thought about it for a minute, she was practically dead
and so he leaned over and put the gun right to her head

(Sample from "Survival of the Fittest" by Mobb Deep)
I'm falling and I can't turn back
I'm falling and I can't turn back

[Verse 4]
Right before he pulled the trigger, and ended her life
he thought about the cocaine with the platinum and ice
and he felt strong standing along with his new brothers
cocked the gat to her head, and pulled back the shirt cover
but what he saw made him start to cringe and stutter
'cause he was staring into the eyes of his own mother
she looked back at him and cried, cause he had forsaken her
she cried more painfully, than when they were raping her
his whole world stopped, he couldn't even contemplate
his corruption had succesfully changed his fate
and he remembered how his mom used to come home late
working hard for nothing, cause now what was he worth
he turned away from the woman that had once given him birth
and crying out to the sky cause he was lonely and scared
but only the devil responded, cause God wasn't there
and right then he knew what it was to be empty and cold
and so he jumped off the roof and died with no soul
they say death take you to a better place but I doubt it
after that they killed his mother, and never spoke about it
and listen cause the story that I'm telling is true
'cause I was there when Billy Jacobs and I raped his mom too
and now the devil follows me everywhere that I go
in fact I'm sure he's standing among one of you at my shows
and every street cipher listening to little thugs flow
he could be standing right next to you, and you wouldn't know
the devil grows inside the hearts of the selfish and wicked
white, brown, yellow and black color is not restricted
you have a self destructive destiny when you're inflicted
and you'll be one of God's children that fell from the top
there's no diversity because we're burning in the melting pot
so when the devil wants to dance with you, you better say never
because a dance with the devil might last you forever

[djredshift]

progrock is certainly not music.

[icy]

u shuld kill yoself 4 disgracing da name of hip hop like dat shawty